‘In Focus’ – An Interview with Muryani Kasdani
Meet Muryani Kasdani (she/her). At less than 5ft tall, people may not expect that she’s had the courage to stand up to school bullies and lead classmates in a fundraising effort.
Muryani grew up believing that the world should be more just and equitable, and believe she can play a part in it. She use her passion for design and systemic problem-solving to enable resilient communities and a thriving planet. She successfully co-founded and led several social impact ventures and trained hundreds of designers, researchers, civil servants, and social service staff in service design and social innovation methods.
One of the social ventures she built, Kudoz, won two design awards at the Vancouver UX Awards 2017 and became a finalist at the Global Service Design Awards in 2016. It was also featured as one of the most disruptive social innovations in numerous publications, including Ann Mei Chang’s Lean Impact.
She works on complex social issues such as community inclusion and circular economy, and is a Certified Change Agent (CCA) with training and experience in organizational change management, helping executive leaders to manage and implement innovations in their organizations.
Muryani Kasdani | Behaviour Designer & Strategist
“The privilege I have working with diverse community members has given me extensive experience in applying an anti-racist, trauma-informed lens to design and innovation.”
Tell us about yourself and your work.
Growing up, I loved drawing and I thought that being a designer was going to be perfect for me. But after working as a visual designer to help companies with their marketing, I wanted to do something more meaningful. So I decided to study Human-Centred Design to work with people more.
After finishing my study, I wanted to use design for good. So I started my own social impact design company to work with impact-driven organizations to build solutions for complex social issues like homelessness and social isolation. Recently, I decided to focus on work that enables resilient communities and a thriving planet, and that’s why I started Regenerative Space. I want to combine Human-Centred Design, Behaviour Change, and Circularity to re-imagine our social and economic systems.
One of the projects I worked on was improving the working conditions for migrant workers in a garment factory in Malaysia. My team and I used design research tools and methodology to do in-context research and interviews. We analyzed the data and found that there was tension around fairness that prevented the team from collaborating.
User research in Gujarat, India to learn about people’s experience of living with physical disabilities in order to develop a novel mobility aid.
What challenges or barriers have you faced in your industry as a woman of colour?
As a woman of colour, I find it challenging to be connected with people in decision-making roles. Often, people who are in these positions don’t look like me and don’t experience the world the way I do, and their network and mine just don’t overlap much organically. Research says that people feel more connected and empathetic to other people who look and sound like them. It’s usually an unconscious bias. So it becomes a disadvantage when we don’t sound and look like those in power because we have less access to resources, opportunities, and networks.
I also care about making meaningful changes through my work, and that includes applying equity and justice frameworks into my work, like many women of colour. But it can make those who benefit from the status quo uncomfortable. This discomfort sometimes is mistaken as a feeling of disconnection. And unfortunately, as humans, the feeling of disconnect can drive someone’s behaviours, from not liking us to being overly critical.
Once I attended a workshop that was meant to be a community consultation session around how AI is used in different issues, such as housing and transportation. It was not a very diverse group; the fact that it was hosted in a large tech company’s office downtown, during a workday, in the middle of the day, with no child care support, no language translators, made it inaccessible to many community members. An idea was proposed to build an AI-powered platform to assess and suss out “bad tenants” to help homeowners and landlords. The idea came from a group of wealthy, highly educated, employed, able-bodied, mostly White professionals. I raised my hand and mentioned that tenants also needed something like that to suss out predatory landlords. The room was silent, and nobody came to me afterwards to chat or build connections.
What are some strategies and approaches you use to cope with these challenges?
One of the strategies that work for me is to first look into myself and work on healing my past hurt and trauma. We all have scars and experiences that inform our worldviews. When we’re aware of our own hurt and triggers, we’re able to take a step back to reflect and ask ourselves “What lens am I using to see this? What about other lenses to see this issue?” A change in perspective is a reframing of a problem and an opportunity to find solutions that may not be obvious.
“One of the strategies that work for me is to first look into myself and work on healing my past hurt and trauma. We all have scars and experiences that inform our worldviews.”
I also try to find other like-minded, value-driven allies in my field to network with, especially women of colour. Having a network of support and a sounding board is so important in helping me to be accountable in the work that I do, check my blind spots, and have fun!
Facilitating a workshop to use design research to inform a public health policy.
What advice would you give to younger women of colour in your industry?
Work on yourself before you work on the world’s challenges. My experience working with the most marginalized communities taught me that without first working on myself and healing from my trauma and hurt, it’s impossible to help and serve others. Our hurt and trauma might also create more harm than good, like making us defensive when we’re criticized, or preventing us from resolving conflicts. We can’t dismantle systems of oppression by using the same tools that the oppressors use, and that starts with working on ourselves.
How do you see the future of workplaces for women of colour?
I’m optimistic that things are changing and improving. A few years ago, we didn’t even have the words to describe our experiences. Now, I see more and more WOC being able to name the challenges we’re facing and find more supportive communities.
“I imagine a more equitable workplace is a workplace that is comfortable with having difficult and honest conversations about what it means to level the playing fields for equity-seeking members.”
I also see more WOC in strategic roles in their work, more initiatives such as DEI training in workplaces, the norms of talking about DEI or the lack of DEI, more demands for accountability for people in positions of power, government RFPs looking to apply DEI frameworks and principles into projects, and more. I imagine a more equitable workplace is a workplace that is comfortable with having difficult and honest conversations about what it means to level the playing fields for equity-seeking members, where calls for accountability aren’t met with retaliation, and where there is trust, safety, and continuous and genuine efforts to challenge the status quo. The change isn’t going to be easy or quick, so let’s keep at it and work together. We need different people IN different parts of organizations, inside and outside, front line and management, more or less power, to all work together to create meaningful change.