Allyship, Part I – An Interview with Karen Catlin
How White Colleagues Can Create Space for Women of Colour
Meet Karen Catlin (she/her), a former tech executive who is now an author and speaker on inclusive workplaces. After spending 25 years building software products and serving as a vice president of engineering at Macromedia and Adobe, Karen witnessed a sharp decline in the number of women working in tech. Frustrated but galvanized, she knew it was time to switch gears.
Today, Karen is a leadership coach and a highly acclaimed author and speaker. She coaches women to be stronger leaders and men to be better allies.
She is the author of four books: Better Allies: Everyday Actions to Create Inclusive, Engaging Workplaces, Belonging in Healthcare, The Better Allies Approach to Hiring, and Present! A Techie's Guide to Public Speaking. Her client roster includes Airbnb, DoorDash, Google, and Intuit, as well as entrepreneurs and individuals.
We spoke to her about how white colleagues and individuals can create space for women of colour through allyship and advocacy. Read the full interview below.
Karen Catlin | Leadership Coach, Author, Speaker
“I want more people to put in the effort to be better allies even though we might get it wrong. Because the best allies are willing to make mistakes and keep trying.”
“Allyship” has become quite a buzzword in recent years. What does it mean to you?
My focus is on everyday acts of allyship in the workplace, which means using your position of privilege or authority to amplify, endorse, sponsor, and advocate for people who are members of underrepresented groups. Some actions can be quite simple, such as speaking up when someone is interrupted with, “I’d like to hear Emma finish her thought.” Or, if you hear someone repeating another person’s great idea and getting all the credit, remind everyone who originated it. For example, you could say something like, “Great idea. Thanks to Willie for surfacing it earlier.” Or, if a client asks you questions instead of the most qualified woman in the room, redirect the conversation with a straightforward, “Deepa is the expert on that topic. Let’s hear from her.”
My favorite personal story of allyship happened soon after I started a new job as an engineering leader. I remember being in a large meeting, and I heard my manager say, "What I learned from Karen Catlin is ..." He then summarized something I had said to him in a conversation the previous week. By doing this, he helped me build credibility with my new colleagues, most of whom were men. He took action as an ally, using his position of privilege to endorse me. His shout-outs made a difference and definitely made me feel great in the moment.
Those are just some examples of allyship—everyday actions we each can take to create more inclusive workplaces.
How do you see allyship show up in your work?
As an author and frequent public speaker on allyship, I strive to be an ally for others in this space by amplifying their work on social media and in my weekly "5 Ally Actions" newsletter. It's another example of a simple thing that can make a difference.
Furthermore, I aim to help others move forward on their journey to be better allies by sharing the mistakes I've made and what I've learned from them. After all, even experts are going to get it wrong at times, myself included. Yet, too often, people step back from being an ally because they're concerned they'll make a mistake. That they might say the wrong thing. Or act in a way that’s not helpful and possibly even hurtful. It can be a lot easier to pull back from these conversations and do nothing.
How do you think we can move from performative allyship to real, purposeful, and intentional allyship?
Performative allyship can take many forms, including talking a good talk without walking the walk and making assumptions about what people need or want. Let's explore that second point.
A few years ago, I received a message from someone I'll call Dave, who had recently taken a leadership role in the allies group at his company. He told me he was struggling to figure out where to start and wondered if I had any suggestions.
I asked, “Do you have specific goals for the group? Have you defined success metrics?”
Well, it turns out that was the heart of the issue. Dave was looking for ideas for good goals, with a focus on educating people on how to be allies, but he was worried about looking like the prototypical white guy telling people about other groups’ experiences. He wanted to lead, support, and create change, but he didn’t want to be cast as an indiscriminate mansplainer.
I recommended he turn it around and ask the company’s employee resource groups about some of their biggest challenges. From there, he could facilitate a cross-group brainstorming session on how allies could help. For example, those groups might report that they don’t have equitable access to mentoring, aren’t asked to give presentations at company meetings, aren’t invited to attend key customer events, or aren’t informed about how promotions happen. Armed with these insights, Dave could craft a strategy for his allies group to address the areas of need, as well as metrics to measure success.
In other words, he could listen and learn. Instead of guessing what colleagues from underrepresented groups might need and launching potentially performative initiatives based on conjecture, he was better served to ask these colleagues what would be helpful. And then take action.
What are some ways white colleagues and leadership can create space for WOC?
I could talk for hours on this topic! I'll share two ideas for allies to support career growth for women of color:
Actively endorse women of color in meetings. I learned this idea from Tim Banks, a Black man, who shared the following on Twitter: “White folks: If you have BIPOC or otherwise marginalized co-workers who are always the outspoken one in meetings, and you agree with what they're saying but don't speak up also, you can't call yourself an ally, full stop. Why do I say that? Because the most vulnerable people in your org take the biggest risk when speaking up. So, when you keep your support silent, leadership has a view that their opinions are the outlier. When this becomes routine, they are viewed as difficult or hypercritical.” Instead of staying silent with our support, we can and should speak up. It might mean simply stating, "I agree with so-and-so" or dropping "100% to what so-and-so said" in the meeting chat.
Speak their name when they aren’t around. In her 2018 TEDWomen talk, which has been viewed over 4 million times, Carla Harris delivered an important message about meritocracy … or lack thereof. She debunked the myth that to get ahead, you just need to do great work and it will be recognized and rewarded. Instead, she points out that you need a sponsor who will speak your name when you’re not in the room. Someone who is invited to decision-making meetings and is willing to spend some of their hard-earned social capital advocating on your behalf. Someone who has your back.
As allies, let's get to know our WOC coworkers so that we can speak about them and their work when they’re not around. Let's praise the impact they've already had and enthusiastically describe their potential. Let's open some career doors that otherwise might be sealed off.
What are some gaps you have noticed when it comes to allyship?
But here's the thing. Keeping quiet when we see unfair, biased, offensive, or inappropriate behavior in the workplace doesn’t make us neutral, it makes us complicit. It means we’re okay with the status quo. It means the opposite of allyship.
I want more people to put in the effort to be better allies even though we might get it wrong. Because the best allies are willing to make mistakes and keep trying. We admit when we’re wrong or could do better, and we correct our course. We resist getting defensive and insisting that we’re already doing enough. We listen and learn. We iterate.
This is why I share the mistakes I've made as an ally in my weekly newsletter.
“Keeping quiet when we see unfair, biased, offensive, or inappropriate behavior in the workplace doesn’t make us neutral, it makes us complicit. It means we’re okay with the status quo. It means the opposite of allyship.”
Connect with Karen Catlin
SOCIAL MEDIA
LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/kecatlin/
Twitter: @kecatlin and @betterallies
Instagram: @karencatlin and @betterallies